The Far Shore Mods (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
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takamagahara2019-03-31 07:00 pm
godsoffortune) wrote in takamagahara2019-03-31 07:00 pm
Entry tags:
State of the Game + April Announcement + Game Style Poll
As we announced recently, we've received assistance in the way of List Mods. What we still needed was a World Mod to replace Kohaku's efforts, as well as another Mod to spread out some of the duties previously accounted for by Kira. For about the last 3 months, you had 2 people doing the amount of work that used to be covered by 4. The Main Mods' time allocated to mod duties had been consumed with much more routine tasks. We tried to balance those tasks across both of us but were not satisfied with the results.
Today, we accepted an offer from Rynn to step in as the new World Mod, which means she is now a Main Mod as well. After she has a chance to ramp up to our processes, she will:
- Answer FAQ questions
- Read Applications for game canon compliance
- Assist with Event, Prayer, Mission, and TDM by reviewing for game canon compliance
Even so, we are looking to wrap up the Cult plotline within 2-3 monthly events - see more below. After that is over, the balance of Slice of Life and MetaPlot is up for debate. You have a poll at the end of this post to help us decide what kind of game The Far Shore could be going forward.
The game has been running on the consistent plotline of The Cult since the game started. With so many characters passionately invested in resolving The Cult plot line, we feel that they should be rewarded. We have an opportunity to completely wrap it up and start a fresh arc, so we'd like to take it. We believe this is in the best interest of the game. Once the Cult arc has concluded, we will update the Premise page accordingly.
We have ideas for a new arc that would be more sustainable given the amount of time the current Main Mods can dedicate to modship duties. We're not saying we have to close the game. It will include an overhaul of how Metaplot is handed out to players.
Right now, the way metaphor is handled is on the premise that we should keep it hidden and so specialized that only players who want to be involved can be, while other players who want to focus on Slice of Life and Character Dynamics can focus on that. The last time we took a poll about this issue, we came away with the impression that a significant chunk of the playerbase likes to RP both of these major aspects, so we've tried to continue to cater to both. The way we've done that so far - which was announced by the mods a long time ago - is by giving teaser concepts in some mod-run game events, while the breadcrumb clues that would eventually push the game into Endgame are reserved for Custom Missions - where only characters who go looking for more clues will find them. Additionally, this left room for player-suggested events. Notably in the past, we've enabled an Ageswap event, because a character in the game caused it to happen, not because of the Metaplot. We would welcome more player-driven events like that in the future.
Unless the poll tells us that the game is more interested in Slice of Life by a wide margin, future major metaplot hints will be handed out broadly to all characters, rather than in specialized NPC interactions and Custom Missions that require characters to pass on that information before it becomes widely known. We will begin to write out the major plot-demanding functionalities of the NPCs and remove Custom Missions as the only way to engage with them and fulfill plot goals.
Please trust that we're doing the best that we can with the time and resources that we do have.
The event post will not go up until April 4th in deference to both April Fool's Day and to allow for discussion time: the event itself will be a sanctioned mingle for characters to discuss big metaplot questions. Which ones though?
The mods will ideally create 3-5 top levels on the event post to help narrow discussion topics, as well as to assist players in finding relevant information later on. Please chime in below with what topics your characters are most passionate about resolving, getting answers for, etc. relevant to the Cultists. If you see a topic someone else suggested that you like, please add a +1 to it in some fashion.
The topics that players collectively most want to see addressed can then fuel both swapping of information during the event as well as how the mods wrap up the Cult plotline.
ICly, there will be a timespan without any Heavens bureaucrats present at the mingle. OOCly, one more top level will be included from the start of the event, which is when Suijin arrives to ask the characters what they have learned about the Compound, the Cult, and the recent oddities, which she can pass on to Amaterasu. In conjunction with OOC interest levels, what the characters tell Suijin will also affect how the Cult plotline gets wrapped up.
We will now begin the transition of NPC duties for Suijin and Votelli to Fru. We have introduced the OOC Contact Post for the NPCs. We hope that players will utilize that post to aid in satisfying their CR goals for NPCs in the game.
If players are not comfortable OOCly communicating with the NPC's player for any reason, they should contact the Main Mods.
Poll #21713 Event and Game style interests
Open to: Access List, detailed results viewable to: Just the Poll Creator, participants: 31
How interested are you in events that cater to answering Metaplot questions?
Mean: 3.58 Median: 4 Std. Dev 0.91
| Not interested at all 1 | 1 (3.2%) | |
|---|---|---|
| 2 | 2 (6.5%) | |
| 3 | 10 (32.3%) | |
| 4 | 14 (45.2%) | |
| Top priority 5 | 4 (12.9%) |
How interested are you in events that cater to Slice of Life and CR building?
Mean: 3.77 Median: 4 Std. Dev 0.97
| Not interested at all 1 | 0 (0.0%) | |
|---|---|---|
| 2 | 3 (9.7%) | |
| 3 | 10 (32.3%) | |
| 4 | 9 (29.0%) | |
| Top priority 5 | 9 (29.0%) |
This concludes our primary initiatives for the Mod Transition, but we continue to welcome Suggestions on game improvements,
- The Far Shore Mods
April Event Topics
no subject
• Are the cult responsible for what has brought characters to The Far Shore as reincarnated gods/new shinki, outside of the formerly established order in the heavens for those mechanics? If so, how did they accomplish this?
• Have the cult been working in collusion with any residents of the heavens? If so, who?
• Have the cult done anything to those characters who have left the heavens via drops, as certain things (like the dolls) seemed to suggest?
• Do Votelli and Sotero have any connection to the cult, and if so, what is it?
I think those are the big questions my characters want answered in some way ICly, and which I'm also interested in OOCly.
no subject
•Are the cult responsible for what has brought characters to The Far Shore as reincarnated gods/new shinki, outside of the formerly established order in the heavens for those mechanics? If so, how did they accomplish this?
• Have the cult been working in collusion with any residents of the heavens? If so, who?
• Have the cult done anything to those characters who have left the heavens via drops, as certain things (like the dolls) seemed to suggest?
From an IC perspective, as Ginia felt the negative effects of her doll being moved, having a conclusion to the dolls would definitely bring some peace of mind and make it easy for her to switch gears to a new plot.
no subject
no subject
no subject
+1
Basically, anything player characters could notice in the days following the cult raid. It has been a huge event and it feels like the fact if player characters involvement was either brushed off by the Heaven's or celebrated by Heavens, even in small form (like new people being more welcome, getting a nod of respect or something like that) could have big implications on them.
Other Questions?
A collection of suggestions/thoughts on the game (1/2)
1. Missions/distribution of plot information. I didn't really touch on this on the HMD so might as well bring it up now. This is a problem I've seen brought up a lot by players in the game, which I'm sure you're already fully aware of. With how missions and plot information are structured right now it's very difficult for anyone to break into the metaplot and get involved without already having connections with involved characters. This looks bad on everyone—if the same core group is controlling access to the plot (whether they like it or not) then it's easy to call that cliquishness or mod favouritism, and I don't think anyone here wants to give off that kind of impression. I'm glad that you guys are planning to try and make plot more available in different ways from now on, but I do still feel that the mission system itself is flawed and desperately needs to be fixed if it's still going to be used at all moving forward.
On the last State of the Game (which was over a year and a half ago wow i feel old now) I suggested putting more emphasis on missions for exploring the metaplot, which did happen, but I made that suggestion with a couple caveats that were not implemented. The main issue is still that access to plot-relevant missions is gated by both high follower/EXP counts and IC knowledge. This is why it's usually the same people doing missions and digging into the metaplot: newer players cannot run these missions themselves to begin with, and even if they can hit the follower/EXP requirement they still need an excuse for their character to know about or want to investigate whatever the mission topic is. There's the excuse that characters can just pair up with another character that does meet these requirements, but this loops back into the issue of requiring IC connections to get involved in the gamewide plot. Game plot should be open to everyone, the only real requirement should be a willingness to put the work in for it.
So, step one to make missions fair for everyone: remove the follower/EXP requirements altogether. That should never have been a prerequisite for plot access. New and old players alike deserve to get involved with the plot equally. At most, I think it'd be fair to have some missions require previous mission experience if it's something more sensitive that's being investigated, but followers/EXP don't need to be brought up.
Step two is the issue of IC information. First of all, how are missions given out by the Heavens ICly? Are any of them public requests for information? If so, they should include some of the necessary information on what characters would be investigating and why. Right now the missions board is just a list with extremely short descriptions on what's been investigated, and that doesn't really help anyone who wasn't there for x event. We should know how these missions are being requested and what sort of rewards/benefits characters would be aware of ICly. I think that extra touch of context would go a long way when it comes to giving characters reasons to get involved.
If you wanted to make some missions more "specialized", you could request a specific kind of skill or give a more in-depth description of what the Heavens would be expecting. For example, if the mission would involve tracking down members of the cult and monitoring their activities, they'd probably prefer a character that's more specialized in stealth or tracking. Or a mission that involves a lot of dangerous ayakashi would prefer skilled fighters over less fighty types. Maybe some missions need to be done in groups of multiple gods/shinki to encourage teamwork and sharing of information over completing a mission solo. The most important part, though, is that any requirements like these should be for making missions that a variety of different characters can contribute to, not just for the sake of limiting who can access them!
Step three is visibility of the missions page itself, which I feel is another big issue with the game's structure right now, but I'll get to the rest of that in a bit. More importantly, missions need to be more prominently displayed if they're going to remain a primary way of obtaining plot info. Right now they're buried in a tab in the prayers page and there isn't really a way to find out about them unless you go hunting for them. I think it'd be great if we could get frequent updates in the monthly announcements on new missions that have opened up, as well as missions that have recently been completed by other characters. If there's information that would've been reported to the Heavens, this information should be somehow made available to all characters whenever possible. The same could apply to plot progression/updates that aren't related to missions: even if it might not be widespread IC info yet, I think it'd help a lot to make plot info at least more visible on an OOC level, so people can clearly see how the plot's progressing and how they might be able to get involved.
2. The prayers/missions page and prayers system in general. I'm gonna be totally frank here, prayers and missions are a friggin disaster. I think the mission system itself is salvageable but the page itself is a nightmare to navigate and, from my point of view, the prayers half of the system has way more modwork tied to it than necessary. I think this page could be re-hauled to make it easier for both mods and players to use.
For starters just look at this. Here we've got multiple tabs that we have to navigate just to see the mission list, and then its this massive wall of over 40 missions, many of which are no longer relevant or never were relevant to the plot. There's barely any organization or distinction between plot-relevant missions and missions that are just for small rewards or other things. If you wanted to do a mission related to a specific plot thread, you'd have to go digging through the list of unsorted options to (hopefully) find the one you want. Looking at the first tab we get upon visiting the prayers/missions page, there's a massive wall of text explaining all kinds of rules and prerequisites that make the system way more complicated than necessary. Several prayers have prerequisite prayers that need to be completed beforehand but they're all scattered throughout the list, making it so you have to scroll up and down to find matching prayers. It's just not very user friendly whatsoever.
I've already talked enough about missions, so mostly I'm just going to talk about prayers here. That said, the core of my suggestion here is to remove the current prayer system entirely and replace it with a more open-ended system where players can create their own prayers and do not need to acquire mod approval beforehand. This would also mean the removal of prayer slots in their current form, in exchange for a system that I think would be much easier for the mods to keep track of alongside monthly AC.
When it comes down to it, prayers aren't something super important and are more of a side-thing that players can do to get a better feel for the setting and give their characters something fun to do in their downtime. One of the biggest annoyances I've had with the prayers system in the past is that you can't just throw down a log and start playing out a cool prayer idea you have, you need to sign up for a specific prayer and wait for mod approval before doing anything. While many of the prayer options are cool and fun, there have also been times where I had a great idea that couldn't really fit into any of the existing prayer options or I had to really stretch a prayer description to make it fit what I had in mind. We have characters representing all kinds of different gods and religions here in the game as well, and wouldn't you expect different gods to receive different kinds of prayers? Like, you don't generally pray to a god of death and famine to help you score a date with a cute girl (not that that wouldn't be hilarious to play out anyway but you get the idea). IMO, it makes more sense to give players freedom in designing prayers, rather than limiting everyone to just what's on the prayer list. The list is great to have for a reference and I absolutely think it should be kept in some form, but there's no real benefit to keeping this hard list of prayers vs letting people make up their own.
So, in this hypothetical prayer system everyone makes their own prayers (or uses ideas from the list of suggestions!) and there's no pre-approval. How would rewards be kept track of in this system, and how would prayers be limited to prevent someone from taking on like 20+ in a month and getting an absurd amount of followers/exp? Well, I think it's pretty simple! All that's really necessary is to submit the results of a prayer in a similar form as the current system, with a link to the thread/the characters involved/a short description of what was accomplished. The 10+ comment minimum would remain, of course, but players would be able to submit anything as long as it fits the definition of a prayer: a mortal would need to request the god's assistance somewhere in the thread, and that request would need to be fulfilled by the end of it. As long as it fits those two definitions, it should count as a prayer. Instead of limiting rewards through slots that need to be updated/checked, it could be as simple as "no more than 3 prayer rewards per month", which could be added as a simple tally next to the prayer rewards column in the AC spreadsheet. This makes it so you only ever have to check for anything prayer related once, after the prayer is completed and submitted, rather than twice (once to approve the prayer and once after the prayer is completed), cutting down on the work for both mods and players.
However, there are a couple other things we'd need to adjust to make this type of system work. First is the follower/exp rewards. Since all prayers would be lumped together in this alternate system, it would be difficult to assign different reward values to most prayers. So, there would need to be a flat follower/exp reward value for all prayers to keep things simple. Let's say 200 followers/20 exp since that's where most prayers fall under.
Second is that some prayers are designed to be more challenging and give better rewards, and I think that should remain as part of the system. Right now this mostly applies to ayakashi prayers that usually have prerequisite prayers before they can be completed. In this alternate system, I'd say that players should be able to create their own prayer "chains" that form an extended storyline, just like what we have now. Most chains right now are only about 2-3 prayers, so we'll cap it off at that (and hey, it's 3 prayer rewards a month, so that's perfect). At the 2nd prayer in such a chain a minor ayakashi could be encountered, and at the 3rd prayer a more powerful ayakashi could be encountered. 2nd and 3rd prayers in a chain would also have higher comment requirements like they do now, as well as giving higher follower/exp rewards to match.
Third isn't strictly necessary, but I do feel it'd be a beneficial change to the prayers system as a whole: the removal of dice rolls to decide success. While it's fun sometimes to play out a loss, this isn't a tabletop game and most of the time in RP I'd rather play out a scene naturally to see how things progress. Since we haven't had limited slots on prayers for a long, long time now, there isn't really much point to restricting who can successfully pass a prayer or not either. Removing dicerolls would also take away yet another thing that mods would have to do to process prayers, so that's another bit of weight off the load.
So, summing everything up, here's how this hypothetical prayer system would work:
- Players can start a prayer anytime, be it in a new log or in the middle of a thread they already had going, without mod approval.
- Once a prayer is complete, players would submit it for approval/rewards on the prayers page. For normal prayers it'd be a 10+ comment thread beginning with a request from a mortal and ending with the fulfillment of that request. If it's part of a chain of prayers, it'd have to be a 20+ comment thread. No dicerolls! Still a minimum of 3 comments per character in prayer threads with more than two characters involved.
- After the prayer's completion is approved by a mod, the number of completed prayers for that character in that AC month would be noted in the existing AC spreadsheet. No more than 3 prayers can be submitted per month per character.
- Rewards are fixed, based on how many prayers have been completed in a single chain. For my example, I'll say that a basic prayer is 200 followers/20 exp, a 2nd prayer in the same chain is 300 followers/30 exp, and a 3rd prayer in the same chain is 500 followers/50 exp. Chains cap out at 3 and a major ayakashi encounter can occur at the 3rd prayer in a chain.
Aside from the benefit of cutting down on forms and modwork, these changes would also cut down on the sheer amount of info clogging up the prayers/missions page, since a lot of it would no longer be necessary with this system. Prayers would be much less intimidating and way easier to get into, since there's no approval step to get started and anyone can just roll straight into a prayer if that's how their threads end up progressing. It's a much more low-pressure system with a greater range of freedom for players to do what they want with it.
I really think this sort of system would work leagues better than the current one, and it ties into some of what I have to say in the next little section of tl;dr here, but I also understand that re-hauling the whole prayer system would take a lot of time. That said, if you guys are open to it I'd be 100% willing to set everything up myself (lord knows i've been thinking over this shit enough already lmao) and at least give you a mock-up of how it would look/work so you can get a better grasp of what I had in mind, and I certainly wouldn't mind throwing all the code together so it could be implemented more easily once everything's decided on. Just say the word and I'll start putting something together!
im sorry i talk so much foRGIVE ME (2/2)
Right now I feel the issue with the game's setting information is 1) there's actually too much of it, and 2) it's scattered between three different pages (the FAQ, shinki 101 and god 101). Having too much information means that players might get intimidated by the sheer amount of it when much of that info isn't truly necessary to understand the game. Most of the important bits were moved to the FAQ, which is great, though there are a still a couple answers on the god/shinki 101 pages. Simple setting info like "do characters need to eat/sleep?" should probably be on the FAQ rather than split between those two 101 pages.
Speaking of splitting into between the 101 pages! That is my main issue with the current way the two pages are set up. Both god and shinki 101 are HUGE dumps of setting info, but a lot of that info is shared between both. It doesn't really make a ton of sense to double up on that info and keep the two separate since, for starters, lots of players play both a god and a shinki, or have dropped and apped a character of the other type even if they're not playing both simultaneously. I also think it's important to understand how both gods and shinki work regardless of which you're playing. Maybe someone hasn't made up their mind yet on which they want to play, so they end up reading both 101 pages and skimming the same info twice. It's just kind of silly, really.
I think it'd be much easier to combine the shinki 101 and god 101 pages into a single page, split into categories similar to how the FAQ is. It would be pretty easy to split up since there are already headers to both sections, all you'd really need to do is combine some of the sections that cover the same info (ayakashi/blight, nora, interactions with the near shore, physical form, god/shinki bonds...) and rewrite some bits so it flows better. This could even incorporate the setting info currently on the FAQ and be repurposed into an all-around Noragami 101 page of sorts, covering everything beyond the basic questions that a potential applicant might have. Keeping all this setting info in one place would make it way easier to find the answers to any setting-related questions one might have, as well as make it easier for players trying to decide between god/shinki for their character. No more hopping between two pages and playing Spot The Difference!
3. Consolidation of game info/form pages. I've said this before and I'm bringing it up again because I still feel it's relevant. Tying into the previous point, there's a LOT of info and pages players have to dig through and mods have to keep track of. Combining some of these pages would make it easier on everyone and make the game look a lot less intimidating from a new player's perspective. I've already given my thoughts on this before tho so I'm just going to link to it here.
The only difference I'd make to this is the combining of suggestions and prayer suggestions, since if my previous suggestion of a change to the prayer system is used then this wouldn't be necessary. To slide back into that point again for a moment: the current prayers suggestion page could be revamped to be a general suggestions/reference page for prayer ideas, with comments set to public and unscreened since there wouldn't be a need to make them into "official" prayers anymore. All the current prayers could be throw in there as suggestions and players would be able to throw in their own ideas at their leisure, and anyone who needed prayer ideas could just look there. Easy peasy!
4. More options/benefits for Nora'd shinki. This is another thing that's been suggested previously already but I found it while looking for my other comment and I feel it's worth bring up again. Here is the original suggestion. We haven't had any changes like these implemented yet, so I'm wondering if there's a chance these ideas could be reconsidered? I still think there should be more incentive to play a Nora'd shinki, since a lack of shinki characters to god characters is still an issue as far as I'm aware. I'd still really like to see special missions for Noras and possibly the option to have character Nora for NPC native gods in exchange for rewards. Future events involving antagonistic shinki that would be less effective against Noras would also be super cool, since that's absolutely an in-canon mechanic that doesn't come up much in the game. The suggestion of a workshop for plotting out god/shinki pairings alongside the monthly TDM is also still a good one! There's lots of good stuff here that could be used to make shinki characters and Noras more appealing to make it easier for god characters to get a partner.
5. oh god i can't believe i wrote so much anyway again these are all just my thoughts/stuff that's come up on plurk, so if anyone wants to throw in their own input/+1s/concerns/whatever please do!! I am just here to ramble and start some kind of discussion.
+1
+ One Million
Pretty much everything here and more. And I guess it is kind of on topic - I just want to also add in that the current 'event' (if you really want to consider it one) is extremely disappointing, and does nothing to address the issues/concerns brought up in the last HMD. It doubles down on them actually.
Cultist plot just hasn't been all that inspiring or easy for most characters to engage with unless they play a very specific character that's into those sorts of investigations...and likely some sort of a do-gooder too. The rest of us can be told what's happening as much as possible, but how personally are we actually affected by it?
We're told not to let strangers use our shrines - Would be an interesting plot point had there been some NPCs or something approaching gods (or even shinki) about this. But instead we only hear about it second hand
The dolls seem to be involved with characters disappearing - It is some kind of stake? But it's so far out of the character's reach that it's hard to have any agency for. The only thing someone can do just hope their doll is never tampered with. It's a problem that may mess with a lot of characters, but either it's going to happen or it's not. So it feels like only shock value.
The hunt for Votelli and Sotero - Some people care for these characters, some don't, some don't even know who they are or why they matter so much. I think that probably explains enough.
Other Far Shore politics - See Votelli and Sotero
I could maybe come up with a few more if I thought long enough, but the over all Far Shore's story has felt pretty weak, despite having a lot of really good potential. That even if all of these systematic changes happen (which they definitely should), I just don't know if that is still going to be enough. I think the main questions that maybe should be asked more often is "Why should my character care?" "How can I make my character care?" and "What's motivating my character to keep performing their god/shinki duties?". ...If the answer is just because they were told to and there's no consequence, it's a problem.
+one million to your +one million
One million squared
But having more motivational keys still helps everyone regardless. I've been rping for long enough to know that the more you have to force a character to do something for plot, the faster they are going to burn out. But if the reason is organic and purely IC, not only is it much more enjoyable but they will last in a game a lot longer.
Basically yeah, the current event is more of the same things that already doesn't make the metaplot work. I'd argue it's worst that usual because nothing but exposition (which is never that exciting to begin with), and partially reliant on those who went on missions to share what they know...So not only do those people have to reply, but it does kind of highlight clique/'mod favoritism' issues that the game has been slowly accused of lately. ...And those that can't or don't want to go to the discussions are left with nothing else to do this month.
Personally what I would have liked? (And this may be purely me) A public BBS announcement by the Heavens with what was found at the raid, with all the remaining plot threads answered and put this cult chapter to bed. Have April be the start of a new arc because the game really needed some sort of reset right about now, not another 2-3 months from now. I don't think it's too much of an exaggeration to say TFS might not survive long enough for a new arc in it's current state. And as I have said on Discord a few times, the cult itself can always be a plot that can return back later. Just hopefully managed a bit better.
EDIT: Also I forgot to say that I feel like there may have been a bit of a misunderstanding about what questions people wanted answers for from the event. I was under the impression that the voting was towards what people wanted to ask the mods/NPCs about, not what topics to share amongst themselves. It feels handled very strangely...
I add decillion to your trillion
The current event gives player characters a chance to discuss it, yes. But it is hinging solely on handful of players' free time and good will to play the exposition-giver route. Maybe I am wrong but I don't think any of the plotline holding characters was contacted that they are suddenly supposed to share all the info they have, and I've seen at least one of them considering to hiatus/sleep to skip the event- which brings us back to square one of no way of sharing the info. But also I don't want to put blame on the players in-the-know, because I totally understand how SUDDENLY being put on a spot (without prior warning at it) can be very offputting. We all have lives and real stuff to deal with. I do not blame, anyone, to just want to-- fade out of this.
Whilst suddenly putting all the onus on players to share it (which I generally agree with Lavvy, is something that sooner or later we should do. I haven't been in many games, but in the one I was, it was kind of mandated that whoever gets the important PLOT POINT is expected to share with the rest of the team. And yes I did my fair share of trying to get involved by ooc plotting often without much success) it is important to recognize and remember that not all players get along. So some might get locked out just by the virtue of who is sharing the knowledge. Which brings us back to the issue that perhaps it is something for mod NPCs to do, and having players discuss it in their own preferred circles.
Honestly, for most of the time I assumed, I'm the only one having the problem, due to my specific circumstances. So I kept silent about it. Because... what else I could do? But seeing all the voices here - and knowing that a lot of players joined and then dropped the game due to it feeling as if it's being geared to only old-players-in-the-know - makes it clear that it is not only me.
I wish I could have some solid and detailed advice on how to proceed now, but the suggestion above to wrap the whole thing ASAP (as opposed three months from now) and proceed into an arc that can make everyone feel involved could be the best choice.
PS - and just for the records, having a character who knows some stuff about Votelli, I do plan on making a top-level regarding this particular part. Once I get confirmed where my character actually stands within it. I was waiting for the chance to do this, because I've started to feel like I'm sitting on it twiddling my thumbs some time ago (and at least she is still accessible via missions and other stuff- which can't be said about stuff like dolls, for example, which is known to what- two, three characters?)
+10000000
I would also like more avenues for characters to strike out on their own ideas instead of being afraid of retribution from the heavens - which has been part of the reason why I have not yet been able to engage with the plot using my character's unique abilities. Similar to Add's void plot, Ain has the capability to expand upon his portal generation powers and it would perhaps help answer the burning question in many PCs' minds; of how they got here. However he is unable to do that because of the vigilance so if there was something more lax then we would be able to explore what people are concerned about.
Re: +10000000
no subject
I would like to put a +1 to the prayer idea actually. I don't think I've ever seen a prayer be not accepted, so getting mod approval for them seems like an extra step that maybe doesn't need to be there.
You could still have the list of prayers as suggestions (for newer players or those of us who need a bit of inspiration!) and also have it that people can make up their own prayers too. I like the 3 prayer reward a month thing and just have a page where people can submit their threads and get rewards (a lot like how you do it on events).
As said you could still have prayer chains and make them standardised so e.g
Step One: A task for a follower, a small mystery to solve etc thread of ten comments, worth 20xp/200 followers
Step Two: A more complex task, following on the theme/story from step one. Maybe a small ayakashi to fight. Thread of fifteen comments 30xp/300 followers
Step Three: The grand finale, solve the mystery, resolve the plot. Fight an ayakashi/major threat. Thread of twenty comments. 50xp/500 followers
Obviously those numbers are just made up but you see what I mean.
You've already said that from now on plot will be handed out more broadly which I think is a good idea, rather than through missions.
+1
+100^100^100
I'm a n00b at this dwrp thing so I usually chalk up my confusion about how the game works to that. But yeah. I didn't touch a lot of stuff in the game because I still don't understand how they work and I don't really like to nag people with every single little thing I'm not sure of. All the time. I would prefer to RTFM but the manual doesn't answer it all so that leaves me quite lost most of the time.
While I really liked the recent improvements (new perks for Gods, yay) I still have problems. Yes, one of my characters is involved in the metaplot but he is so only by virtue of ICly knowing the right people. And with events centred on wrapping the metaplot, I actually don't have a lot to do with my second character who is not involved. That's kind of sad.
+1?
My first character in the game was a shinki who had an extremely inactive god who idled out after a long time of squatting and multiple hiatuses, and originally I attributed my extensive ignorance on prayers/missions to that - I just hadn't had someone show me how it was done, right? I hadn't had a god engaged enough to do missions or prayers with my character at all, so of course I didn't understand how they worked or why they were worth doing.
But even after I'd been in the game for a long time, even once I started playing gods myself, I just...couldn't grasp it. To me, missions and prayers just seemed like thread prompts that were limited to only what characters you could gather up to interact with them - and potentially an NPC. And it was hard to feel particularly motivated to do those when if I wanted a thread with a specific character, I could do one tied to their CR(not needing a random prompt), and if I wanted a random prompt then it'd be a lot more interesting to use one of the prompts on the training logs or events where you have a wide range of characters who can reply to you.
Worse, mod and NPC response has been slow for a lot of the time I've been in the game - it's getting better, mind you! but this was a factor for a long while - so opting into a mission/prayer that required mod or NPC response meant being in it for the long haul. Plus all the limitations and bureaucracy around them (exp/follower requirements, prayer slots...) made the whole process feel restrictive and kind of intimidating next to just...playing in the game in a more freeform way.
Also, I just have to say - I literally never even knew that there was any tie between metaplot and doing missions until I saw people complaining about it. Since I hadn't seen reason to look into it much and was too turned off by everything around missions to really investigate them thoroughly, I'd skipped off the whole concept enough to have no idea there was any greater motivation to doing missions. My hazy understanding of prayers and missions had been, up until the recent feedback, that they were basically bonus mechanics for active players to use, prompts they could opt into to get things like follower/exp rewards. I had no issues with those features existing, they just didn't feel like anything I could, or particularly wanted to, make use of. I literally had no idea any important plot info was gated behind them; I thought that was disseminated only through things like plot event involvement or CR with characters who were involved themselves, like other games I've been part of.
Anyway, I've always felt like my obliviousness on the matter of prayers and missions was my own fault, and my own lack of investment in not looking into them further, so I'd never offered any critique or feedback on the matter before. But the more I see other players talk about their issues with the system...the more I think that perhaps the reason those systems seemed so unappealing and incomprehensible to me is because of the way they're structured, rather than just because I never grokked them. And I wonder if a lot of players have shared my experience in hardly ever using or understanding prayers/missions, and not even knowing some of the reasons to engage with those mechanics in the first place.
I definitely agree with what everyone is saying about prayers and missions needing a serious overhaul(and I think the suggestions to remove most of the gates/modwork from them to up speed and ease of player involvement is an excellent one, specifically), and likewise I think that no longer gating metaplot info behind these systems is a good thing long overdue. But I also think that there may need to be more incentive for players to use these features in the first place, if they're preserved. I've never felt that prayers/missions were so engaging, or focused what I want out of RP(CR, primarily), that I've ever been particularly inclined to do them when I can just play out closed threads elsewhere in the game more quickly and with less hassle.
Even if barriers like mod approval or slow NPC response are no longer factors to take into consideration, I'm still not sure what the real motivation for doing prayers or missions is beyond exp/follower gain, and I don't remember those being so significant that I felt like it was worth arranging a thread just for that. But then, not many of my characters have ever been especially focused on getting regains, so maybe it's just a system made for the convenience of different kinds of characters than mine...which isn't really an issue to me, personally. Just because I don't feel like it's worth my time doesn't mean other players won't be interested, and an optional game mechanic doesn't need to cater to me personally to be worth keeping! But...I am concerned as to just how much general appeal these mechanics have, and if they could be made appealing to a wider audience. It may be a setup with not nearly enough payoff for a majority of the playerbase, and if that's the case, maybe there needs to be serious consideration for how to up the rewards or otherwise broaden the appeal. Especially if engagement with the metaplot was one of the perks of getting involved with missions, and now that's going away.
+1
I have a mission started in December (IC March 5th) that didn't get significant information until March (IC April). That means while Ginia had the information for over a month, it wasn't anything I could act on because I didn't know it was there. When multiple events have passed by that at point, it doesn't feel like anything can be used or shared in a meaningful way.
Ginia certainly has her share of personal mysteries she wants to solve and is the kind of character willing to pursue them. However, with the system as it currently is, it's more frustration than it's worth.
I would definitely love the see prayers opened up. There are some great prompts in there that are fun for CR building and that they're gated makes it difficult to pursue. Similarly, will the monthly announcements ever return? The updates on what was happening on the Near and Far Shore gave some nice small prompts for people to work with.
+1 to above comment
I'll use the Ryou interrogation again as the example: originally, Ryou would have told mine and the other character who caught him the location of the Compound. But this was after the Compound Event closed up; I had to speak up and say that knowing that information and not sharing is very OOC for my character. While it was changed up, it still is very much 'how do I have my character give this info if it's far too late for them to speak out on it'?
I also agree with the idea of prayers being opened up and have been curious onto the monthly announcements because some of the smaller matters did make some good ideas for anyone wanting to do something for CR Building.
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This is a random thought I had, others are free to expand on the idea with their own suggestions.
no subject
+1 to everything that has been said
Elfnein's been in game for over a year but anything meta plot related she wouldn't know even after being in game for that long because the missions are locked by exp/follower amounts. Plus any info they do know was only because other characters dropped bits and pieces but never the full what was going on. Looking back on it, it wasn't until the last 2-3 months that my character was able to figure out the cult stuff icly, even then I felt it was limiting.
It's really hard to get involved when there is just hurdle to jump through to get into things. It's also just kinda sad knowing that even after being in game for over a year that I can't get involved more due to all the hurdles.
If the mission and prayer system get overhauled like what was recommended by others I think it will solve the main issue of people not being able to get into the plot more. It will also allow people to create better prayers and whatnot that suit their nature as a god. (like, for instance I would create a prayer related to learning / teaching as a prayer for Elfnein since it fits her being a god of knowledge. Instead of oh someone needs help with a date or a lost pet.)
As for the next plot or phase of the game, I'd rather see it sooner then later. The April event log being really locked to main people in the meta plot just rubs me the wrong way and since that thread of plot is done moving to one with the overhauls and new ideas would allow people to really hit the ground running.